I don't so much like dividing into categories of right and wrong. Who decides? And upon what criteria? Especially when being right is used as a comeuppance. (I'm not at all suggesting that you are doing that.) I guess it's just too absolute for me to use those terms.
And I also think that realizing for instance, that germ theory has never been proven (which was quite a shocking revelation) and then mask wearing, 6 feet distancing , ventilators, and earlier, Kennedy's death, moon landing, Iran Contra, 9/11, are good reasons for questioning everything. Which I do. I hate lies. But that doesn't mean that everything is a lie. Discernment, as you described it, is key.
I think we agree. Right and wrong is really proven v unproven and each person can have different criteria for what they consider to be proof.
In this piece I simply state that the body of evidence is simply so overwhelming for spherical Earth that to believe something else makes you look stupid ...in my opinion.
I hear you on the difficulty there can be when a person you agree with and admire is found to hold views you find repugnant. For example, they support racist views or think sex with minors should be acceptable. Both these views are immoral and cause harm. However, I think what anyone believes about the shape of our realm is not in this category. Whether one thinks the earth is round or some other shape doesn't harm anyone. It isn't a moral issue or one that makes any day-to-day material difference.
The public's continued belief in virus existence is causing massive harm and death every day. It matters what people believe about this. That is not the case with belief that earth is not a spinning globe. And any individual's belief that way ought not to cast doubt on the respectability of their cognition about viruses and germ theory, which for all the prominent voices in the no-virus space is based on detailed research and analysis.
I fear that argument about the shape of earth is being used to divide us, deliberately. Let's not allow that and keep our focus on what matters. Let people think what they will about earth's shape and origin.
I like your criteria, Betsy. I also don't think beliefs about flat earth are a moral issue. I don't have the interest nor wherewithal to research it. And have come to wonder if it really matters. And if some people think it really matters, I don't mind.
Interesting your thoughts about using that issue to divide us. There are so many angles to consider. I like to keep an open mind. Especially since 2020 I've gone through many revisions of what I've thought to be true, and I expect that will continue.
I have heard at least one other no-virus person make this issue important, tried to argue with me about it in one of my comment sections. His argument was that flat earth is a psyop which is now being insinuated into no-virus conversations to scare away people who think the idea that earth is anything but a globe is utter nonsense. If those people hear no-virus proponents saying they believe earth is flat, they will not listen to anything else they have to say and will walk away in disgust. (“Flat earth” is the icon of stupid, uneducated beliefs, the quintessential insult for someone who believes ridiculous things.) It’s my view that this will only work if people make a big deal about flat earth! It really doesn’t matter and has nothing whatever to do with germ theory’s fraudulence and virus nonexistence. It’s like religion. I believe in this theology and you believe in that one, and it doesn’t matter one iota to the fact that we both know viruses have never been found and we want everyone to understand that to stop the carnage.
Ignore it, 100%. Making a song and dance about it is exactly what the psyop creators want us to do--that is how the no-virus position could be eroded and discredited. Stay above it is my opinion.
Probably some in the "it's all fake" crowd are state agents whose job is to taint by association the dangerous truths (such as that viruses are a ruling-class lie).
This is where the entire subject opens up into the confusion that's being thrown out around us atm. And why this confusion is being deliberately being thrown around us. This is all part of the behavioural modification that they are putting us all through. You and I stop to self check, and to see if the information stacks up before reaching a conclusion, the vast majority do not. It's so easy for them to accept information which ties into their belief systems, whatever those belief systems are a part of. It moves them into what they feel offer safe areas rather than dealing with their anxieties and uncertainty, so they will jump into those spaces. There's so much deliberate mind fuckery going on these days, and the vast majority are blissfully unaware they are being played and herded.
Kind of amusing you haven't engaged with my original comment at all. If you take all the disparaging remarks throughout this comment section, replace 'flat earth' with no virus, and search through a thousand 'covid truther' substacks over the last 5 years (I note you are extremely late to the party), it would be an absolute carbon copy. Sanjoy (regardless of their opinion) will testify to this as they have been here the whole time. The calls that all the no virus people are psy ops, made to discredit the - lets call a spade a spade here - holier than thou, 'I'm woke to just the right amount of truth that vaccines and passports are bad, but not like those crazy no virus people' people. Boy that was a mouthful. You think you are on solid ground when I guarantee you have not explored all the arguments, let alone tested them against true advocates. Exactly as you would have been prior to no virus. Just a really interesting contrast. As i said in my initial comment, the paralels between both attitudes and logical fallacies on the issue of virus existence and earth shape are startling. 'You are wrong' but I do not wish to discuss it! I wish you luck with everyone scratching each others back thinking the only possible explanation for those that see things differently to us is... Psy OP!!
You said you weren't convinced but seemed happy to think the Earth might be flat.
I am convinced and also do not see parallels in the promotion of germ theory and I can't this as a psyop but instead a convenient ruse to prop up a multi billion dollar worldwide business and potential depopulation agenda
Have you had a discussion with them about said proofs? I think we largely know who they are anyway and I don't think what you present here is anything new. I am far from an expert but probably fall on the flat side. I do know that the shape was determined long ago using star reference points and so any zenith angle measurements are simply self referential. A theodolite experiment that is ongoing in the flat earth community, prima facie, refutes your proofs and I would love to hear Jesse contend with them in a discussion (See Space Audits youtube channel and Aether Cosmology discord server). For me, I am happy to be unconvinced completely by either side as I see contradictory evidence in both directions and at a very early stage I am simply out of the discussion comprehending the math. I'm curious also as to your view of the Michelson–Morley experiment which is touted to disprove the aether, but this is not true as it needed relativity as a rescue device. In which case, it suggests the earth is not spinning (Einstein also confirmed in his time that no instrument can measure this rotation from here on earth). This isn't proof of flatness but it does (if true) throw out the entire cosmological model, which is certainly strong second hand evidence of sphericity and the nature of other celestial bodies, also used as second hand evidence. In fact, rescue devices and the echo of the virology debate is what first drew me to the subject. Ie space must be a vaccum cause its the only way stars can remain that far away while still have their light travel to us. Dark matter must exist (whatever it is), cause it is the only way the gravity model remains in tact Antibodies and immunity must be a thing cause how else can viruses infect and cause illness in some and not others, where this would simply refute the theory altogether in any honest endeavour. See the paralel? To finish, I enjoy your virology (or anti virology) content and don't pick sides on one argument based on views held on another. Thanks
I’ve never met a flat earther. I only ever saw them on the internet. In my opinion there is no such thing as a flat earther. Most probably invented by the CIA to make fun of those that question the moon landing narrative. I see it weaponized all the time.
There's also the religious element, with Genesis describing the 4 corners of the earth and a firmament. I will have to ask a theologian friend as to the actual translation of the word firmament. Some say it's misinterpreted, I don't know anything about that.
I'm sure religion has been responsible for people believing all sorts of nonsense both historically and up to the modern day. I'm equally convinced religion has value to many and is a great source of comfort at difficult times. But in my view it possibly causes more problems than it solves being at the root of much that is not beneficial to mankind.
At least for the time being we are free to embrace or reject it.
Y’all should see people flip out when I point out that there is two creation stories in the Bible. Most people are ignorant to this fact. First the Elohim created man and women together as equals.
Then the genocidal YHWH shows up with his garden and tells man and women that they are dirt.
The world was already populated by the Elohim according to the Jewish Bible.
You might be right with the motives, who would know who the people I watch really are or what their motives are. But if you really think there arent people with plenty of compelling things to say on the matter (right or wrong in the final wash up), you just haven't looked hard enough. All good if you have no desire to, just saying the idea there is no such thing is almost certainly wrong.
It's getting very dangerous tho. Ive spent a lot of my life around folks who work in war zones or reporting on such places or being physicians of one kind or another there. Just listening to a guy reporting on the Lebanon casualties describing all the parasites and contagious and non contagious sicknesses they have . Folks who think scabies is purely there to help us really ought to be out there helping folks to navigate that issue. In the meantime I can see a huge amount of drugging and poisoning is likely to be unfolding. Even deepy religious communities still seem to succumb to bugs and beasties which make it even more unpleasant for them. Its als even harder for the doctors having to navigate whilst also kind of knowing that its probably not great to be giving out antibiotics. I have so much sympathy for these poor doctors, I don't want to make it even harder for them. We have to find better solutions rather than just stopping at smug certainty about our theories ..
I know doctors who deploy tribal healing methods in place of western ones at times.. and sometimes they lose a lot of patients as a result , and that is tough all round. I hope we can generate lots of positive solutions with our efforts.
I don't so much like dividing into categories of right and wrong. Who decides? And upon what criteria? Especially when being right is used as a comeuppance. (I'm not at all suggesting that you are doing that.) I guess it's just too absolute for me to use those terms.
And I also think that realizing for instance, that germ theory has never been proven (which was quite a shocking revelation) and then mask wearing, 6 feet distancing , ventilators, and earlier, Kennedy's death, moon landing, Iran Contra, 9/11, are good reasons for questioning everything. Which I do. I hate lies. But that doesn't mean that everything is a lie. Discernment, as you described it, is key.
I think we agree. Right and wrong is really proven v unproven and each person can have different criteria for what they consider to be proof.
In this piece I simply state that the body of evidence is simply so overwhelming for spherical Earth that to believe something else makes you look stupid ...in my opinion.
I hear you on the difficulty there can be when a person you agree with and admire is found to hold views you find repugnant. For example, they support racist views or think sex with minors should be acceptable. Both these views are immoral and cause harm. However, I think what anyone believes about the shape of our realm is not in this category. Whether one thinks the earth is round or some other shape doesn't harm anyone. It isn't a moral issue or one that makes any day-to-day material difference.
The public's continued belief in virus existence is causing massive harm and death every day. It matters what people believe about this. That is not the case with belief that earth is not a spinning globe. And any individual's belief that way ought not to cast doubt on the respectability of their cognition about viruses and germ theory, which for all the prominent voices in the no-virus space is based on detailed research and analysis.
I fear that argument about the shape of earth is being used to divide us, deliberately. Let's not allow that and keep our focus on what matters. Let people think what they will about earth's shape and origin.
You are not wrong. And after a deal of profound soul searching I have decided not to allow this to cause me issues.
That is the message anyone should take from this piece along with one that says: 'do your research ...on everything.'
Nobody is expected to believe me I have simply pointed out very many people who are worthy of people's belief in this matter.
And I will continue to promote people whose views and research into refuting germ theory is also worthy of belief in my opinion.
I like your criteria, Betsy. I also don't think beliefs about flat earth are a moral issue. I don't have the interest nor wherewithal to research it. And have come to wonder if it really matters. And if some people think it really matters, I don't mind.
Interesting your thoughts about using that issue to divide us. There are so many angles to consider. I like to keep an open mind. Especially since 2020 I've gone through many revisions of what I've thought to be true, and I expect that will continue.
I have heard at least one other no-virus person make this issue important, tried to argue with me about it in one of my comment sections. His argument was that flat earth is a psyop which is now being insinuated into no-virus conversations to scare away people who think the idea that earth is anything but a globe is utter nonsense. If those people hear no-virus proponents saying they believe earth is flat, they will not listen to anything else they have to say and will walk away in disgust. (“Flat earth” is the icon of stupid, uneducated beliefs, the quintessential insult for someone who believes ridiculous things.) It’s my view that this will only work if people make a big deal about flat earth! It really doesn’t matter and has nothing whatever to do with germ theory’s fraudulence and virus nonexistence. It’s like religion. I believe in this theology and you believe in that one, and it doesn’t matter one iota to the fact that we both know viruses have never been found and we want everyone to understand that to stop the carnage.
I feel it is a psyop pure and simple to discredit the no virus camp by association.
But are we best to just ignore it ...or make a song and dance to rubbish it — which inadvertently draws more attention? 🤔
Ignore it, 100%. Making a song and dance about it is exactly what the psyop creators want us to do--that is how the no-virus position could be eroded and discredited. Stay above it is my opinion.
Probably some in the "it's all fake" crowd are state agents whose job is to taint by association the dangerous truths (such as that viruses are a ruling-class lie).
I could easily believe this is what is happening.
A friend of mine wrote to me with this. Reads:
This is where the entire subject opens up into the confusion that's being thrown out around us atm. And why this confusion is being deliberately being thrown around us. This is all part of the behavioural modification that they are putting us all through. You and I stop to self check, and to see if the information stacks up before reaching a conclusion, the vast majority do not. It's so easy for them to accept information which ties into their belief systems, whatever those belief systems are a part of. It moves them into what they feel offer safe areas rather than dealing with their anxieties and uncertainty, so they will jump into those spaces. There's so much deliberate mind fuckery going on these days, and the vast majority are blissfully unaware they are being played and herded.
Kind of amusing you haven't engaged with my original comment at all. If you take all the disparaging remarks throughout this comment section, replace 'flat earth' with no virus, and search through a thousand 'covid truther' substacks over the last 5 years (I note you are extremely late to the party), it would be an absolute carbon copy. Sanjoy (regardless of their opinion) will testify to this as they have been here the whole time. The calls that all the no virus people are psy ops, made to discredit the - lets call a spade a spade here - holier than thou, 'I'm woke to just the right amount of truth that vaccines and passports are bad, but not like those crazy no virus people' people. Boy that was a mouthful. You think you are on solid ground when I guarantee you have not explored all the arguments, let alone tested them against true advocates. Exactly as you would have been prior to no virus. Just a really interesting contrast. As i said in my initial comment, the paralels between both attitudes and logical fallacies on the issue of virus existence and earth shape are startling. 'You are wrong' but I do not wish to discuss it! I wish you luck with everyone scratching each others back thinking the only possible explanation for those that see things differently to us is... Psy OP!!
You said you weren't convinced but seemed happy to think the Earth might be flat.
I am convinced and also do not see parallels in the promotion of germ theory and I can't this as a psyop but instead a convenient ruse to prop up a multi billion dollar worldwide business and potential depopulation agenda
Have you had a discussion with them about said proofs? I think we largely know who they are anyway and I don't think what you present here is anything new. I am far from an expert but probably fall on the flat side. I do know that the shape was determined long ago using star reference points and so any zenith angle measurements are simply self referential. A theodolite experiment that is ongoing in the flat earth community, prima facie, refutes your proofs and I would love to hear Jesse contend with them in a discussion (See Space Audits youtube channel and Aether Cosmology discord server). For me, I am happy to be unconvinced completely by either side as I see contradictory evidence in both directions and at a very early stage I am simply out of the discussion comprehending the math. I'm curious also as to your view of the Michelson–Morley experiment which is touted to disprove the aether, but this is not true as it needed relativity as a rescue device. In which case, it suggests the earth is not spinning (Einstein also confirmed in his time that no instrument can measure this rotation from here on earth). This isn't proof of flatness but it does (if true) throw out the entire cosmological model, which is certainly strong second hand evidence of sphericity and the nature of other celestial bodies, also used as second hand evidence. In fact, rescue devices and the echo of the virology debate is what first drew me to the subject. Ie space must be a vaccum cause its the only way stars can remain that far away while still have their light travel to us. Dark matter must exist (whatever it is), cause it is the only way the gravity model remains in tact Antibodies and immunity must be a thing cause how else can viruses infect and cause illness in some and not others, where this would simply refute the theory altogether in any honest endeavour. See the paralel? To finish, I enjoy your virology (or anti virology) content and don't pick sides on one argument based on views held on another. Thanks
I’ve never met a flat earther. I only ever saw them on the internet. In my opinion there is no such thing as a flat earther. Most probably invented by the CIA to make fun of those that question the moon landing narrative. I see it weaponized all the time.
There's also the religious element, with Genesis describing the 4 corners of the earth and a firmament. I will have to ask a theologian friend as to the actual translation of the word firmament. Some say it's misinterpreted, I don't know anything about that.
I'm sure religion has been responsible for people believing all sorts of nonsense both historically and up to the modern day. I'm equally convinced religion has value to many and is a great source of comfort at difficult times. But in my view it possibly causes more problems than it solves being at the root of much that is not beneficial to mankind.
At least for the time being we are free to embrace or reject it.
Y’all should see people flip out when I point out that there is two creation stories in the Bible. Most people are ignorant to this fact. First the Elohim created man and women together as equals.
Then the genocidal YHWH shows up with his garden and tells man and women that they are dirt.
The world was already populated by the Elohim according to the Jewish Bible.
You might be right with the motives, who would know who the people I watch really are or what their motives are. But if you really think there arent people with plenty of compelling things to say on the matter (right or wrong in the final wash up), you just haven't looked hard enough. All good if you have no desire to, just saying the idea there is no such thing is almost certainly wrong.
It's getting very dangerous tho. Ive spent a lot of my life around folks who work in war zones or reporting on such places or being physicians of one kind or another there. Just listening to a guy reporting on the Lebanon casualties describing all the parasites and contagious and non contagious sicknesses they have . Folks who think scabies is purely there to help us really ought to be out there helping folks to navigate that issue. In the meantime I can see a huge amount of drugging and poisoning is likely to be unfolding. Even deepy religious communities still seem to succumb to bugs and beasties which make it even more unpleasant for them. Its als even harder for the doctors having to navigate whilst also kind of knowing that its probably not great to be giving out antibiotics. I have so much sympathy for these poor doctors, I don't want to make it even harder for them. We have to find better solutions rather than just stopping at smug certainty about our theories ..
I know doctors who deploy tribal healing methods in place of western ones at times.. and sometimes they lose a lot of patients as a result , and that is tough all round. I hope we can generate lots of positive solutions with our efforts.